Kirk Cameron and his Scientific Proof of God

I don't know how many of you watched the debate on Nightline the other night. Kirk Cameron (the kid from Growing Pains) and his partner Ray Comfort claimed to be able to prove scientifically without using faith or the Bible, that God existed. They called a couple people from the Rational Response Squad(RRS), Brian and Kelly.

After about a week long wait for the program to air, the editing on the air was done terribly. They cut during points, and before any question could be answered. If you go to ABCnews.com and watch the online videos you see more, but not all of it.

Getting to the debate though, Ray Comfort started, and spoke for a while. He held up a can of Coke, and said that the can of Coke was proof there was someone who created it. Then a painting, and said since there is a painting, there is proof that someone painted it. He mentioned if you see a building, there is proof that someone built it. This argument seems unshakable. There is one big problem though. Here is what you are saying.

"If something exists, there must be a creator. Since the world and the universe exists, there must be a creator"

Here is the giant whole in your logic, the painter created the painting. What created the painter? God created the painter. What created God? Super God created God.

If painting, then painter.
If painter, then God.
If God, then some kind of more complex super God.

I already know the rebuttal for that thinking. God is outside of time. God is infinite. Time is just something made up by the human mind, and time happened all at once, but God is outside of it. Time is no different than the other three dimensions of the universe. Yes is is just of the mind, not only in humans but all animals have some sense of time. There is nothing wrong with saying that time began at the big bang. Creationist constantly ask what happened before that. Trying to ascertain what happened "before" time began is like trying to find out what is north of the North Pole.

The argument of time though is just a distraction from the original question, whether within or outside of time, God exist. and what did we learn from your own logic. If God exist then what created him, and then what created that?

The other second point Ray made was the ten commandments and human morality. He basically just preached gospel and said since it was gospel it was just given to be true. There went his without the Bible try. He also said since human were the only animals with morals, it shows that God favors us, and created us in His image. He failed to do his research on this also. Studies have been done on other animals to show that other animals have morals too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/science/20moral.html?ex=1332043200&en=84f902d5855a9173&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

I would highly suggest the article above, I don't feel like explaining it. It's filled with several examples.

The third point he tried to make was when you decide to turn yourself over to God and just accept him, you just know He's there. As soon as I call this a mental disorder I will lose the rest of you that haven't stopped reading already. A person who has Schizophrenia also truly believes there are really voices, or really other people. A person doing drugs believe in the hallucinations that they see. We have a word for that, delusional. Of course once you allow the delusion that there is a God to get in your head, you believe it. That's how the brain works.

The debate finishes off at least for side God by trying to scare people into believing by using hell. Scary stuff that hell. I was disappointed by both sides a little bit. The RRS made some mistakes, but not nearly as much as Ray. I don't really know where Kirk went, just showed some silly pictures to show he didn't understand evolution.